A recent Toronto Star series,produced by investigative reporters Robert Cribb and Jennifer Yang, created a sensation by conveying the strong impression that private schools inflate student marks and some privately-owned Toronto high schools operate as virtual “credit mills.” http://www.thestar.com/printarticle/1054778 The second expose was a gripping undercover story, once again highlighting the perennial problem of so-called VISA schools operating beyond the irreproachable scrutiny of Ontario’s Ministry of Education inspectorate. Since 2009, the Toronto Star also reported that the Ontario MOE had received dozens of complaints about “private schools,” including many about the greatest ‘credit mill’ of them all, Scarborough’s notorious “Toronto Collegiate Institute.” http://www.parentcentral.ca/parent/article/1055379–star-investigation-slacking-off-gets-high-marks-at-this-high-school
Slacking-off can earn students high marks at the TCI Summer School, but so what? Most struggling high school students have known for years that the easiest route to re-gaining a Mathematics or Science high school credit is by attending Summer School anywhere. The Toronto Collegiate Institute is, by most accounts, only the most blatant example of the practice, common in both public and private education. For the most part, simply “putting in the hours” guarantees you a credit and a touched-up mark.
News stories like the Toronto Star series attempt to blacken the reputation of not only ‘fly-by-night’ private schools, but also to sully the reputation of Canadian private schools, including some of Canada’s outstanding independent schools. http://www.cais.ca/ Indeed, someone with only a passing acquaintance with Canadian private school world or an ideological axe to grind, might easily be taken-in by such clap-trap.
Students who attend private schools tend to perform “significantly better “ on international achievement tests, so stories about the so-called soft standards in such schools should be taken with a grain of salt. A new August 2011 report, commissioned by the Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), confirms this while painting a more complicated picture, factoring in a socio-economic analysis of the results. Given the OECD’s mandate, the detailed analysis focused as much on the perceived educational value of private schools as on reporting the actual student performance results. http://www.pisa.oecd.org/dataoecd/6/43/48482894.pdf
In the August 2011 study reported in PISA in Focus, private school students at 14-years-of-age were compared with the much larger public school cohort using results from the 2009 Program of International Standards and Assessment (PISA). Based upon straight results, private school students in 36 OECD countries, including Canada, scored 30 points higher in PISA reading scores, essentially equivalent to three-quarters of a year’s worth of formal schooling. The private school performance edge, according to the OECD researchers, was attributable to three key factors: the competitive school environment, greater teacher autonomy in deciding curriculum and allocating resources, and the ability to attract higher performing socially-advantaged students.
The OECD study bore deeper into the results for reading performance. Comparing socially-advantaged students from public schools with their private school counterparts, the OECD study claimed, effectively narrowed the advantage or removed it entirely in 13 of the 16 countries showing significant differences in raw results. Some three-quarters of the 30 point advantage disappeared when OECD compared the two socio-economically advantaged groups of students. The study of PISA reading results compared public and private schools, across the range of countries, in relation to four key criteria: higher (positive) socio-cultural-economic status; disciplinary climate; material resources for instruction; and shortage in supply of teachers.
The PISA in Focus report provided a valuable picture of the state of private education across the 36 OECD countries. The percentage of students attending private schools was reported, showing a great variation among the countries. Those with the highest percentages were Macao-China ((95%), Hong Kong-China (92%) and Dubai-UAE (69%) and the lowest were the former Eastern Bloc countries. The United States (7%) and Canada (6%) were well below the OECD average of 15% private school enrolment. It also demonstrated that all private schools are not alike, making a clear distinction between private independent schools (like those in Dubai and Canada) and private government-dependent schools ( such as most in Macao, Hong Kong, Ireland, and Chile).
The OECD study, like many applying SES factors, is inclined to explain away the sharp variations in actual results. The report’s contention that public schools with comparable student populations offer the same advantages is problematic because it’s difficult for parents to determine which public schools are better than others. While private schools and socially advantaged public schools do benefit the students attending them, the OECD study claims that private schools, perhaps because of their smaller numbers, do not “raise the level of the school system as a whole.”
The sweeping conclusions reached by the OECD report authors will certainly be challenged by great numbers of students, parents, and staff. Why? Because their appraisal will be based upon more than SES benchmarked comparative test results, and they are likely far more familiar with the true advantages– for better or worse — of a private school education.
What was behind the sensationalist Toronto Star story painting all private schools with the same tarred brush? Why do private school students, worldwide, tend to perform better on student achievement assessments? If some socially-advantaged “public schools” do produce better student results, why do public school promoters continue to insist that all schools provide a good education? What is it about private schools that explains why their students tend to perform “significantly better” when assessed on a level playing field?
Educhatter 
Perhaps the motivation behind the Toronto Star’s (Jennifer Yang) article captures the ever increasing need by the public system, in this case Ontario’s MOE, to evaluate the competition. When there is a history of and long term projection of declining enrolment, and an ever voracious Blob, every student counts for the public school system.
How to retain what students are available in a centralizing public school enviornment? Tar the whole IS system as a credit mill and hope to relocate the lost sheep back into the fold. Or prevent them from drifting away in the first place. Hard to do in a one size fits all system.
Innovation, leadership and citizenship, promoted and cultivated by the private schools in Canada, continues to be a reality that is grist for the public school system’s PR mills also. Easily distorted as elitist.
If about 6.5% of Canadian students are going to private schools, this type of tactical article may show how desperate the public educational system is getting.
Great teachers, community involvement, innovation, class sizes, competition, resoursefulness, self reliance, IT, (even creating schools out of rejected public buildings) … all contribute to excellent student achievement assesessments.
Why do private school students, worldwide, tend to perform better on student achievement assessments?
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Private schools can pick and choose their students?
Wealthier parents can afford tutors?
Wealthier parents at affluent area public school certainly can afford tutors, however this data has never actually been collected in Ontario that I know of.
I was a board member of the Ontario provincial testing agency for several years in the early days of the EQAO. Each year parents would have to fill out a survey asking such questions as “do you read to your child?”, “do you have a computer?”, “how many books do you have at home?”–that sort of thing. Never did they ask,”do you pay for tutoring?” I often requested that the agency try to gather data on this indicator as I knew that middle and upper class parents were using tutoring. Academic gains at schools could not be honestly evaluated without knowing the whole story. The EQAO would never do this because it would have likely been a bombshell.
Schools often took credit for improvements when it was Kumon or Oxford that should have reaped the honours! Business for this form of private schooling has never been better. Who knows? Maybe the reason we have supposedly become the country with the best schools isn’t because of the public system, but because of private assistance! No one has had the guts to find out.
The work of Paul Greyson at York University is very insightful. He has PROVEN time and again that when you control for SES public schools actually do better. You cannot compare Upper Canada College to ALL Toronto high schools. When you compare to say Forest Hill HS of the same SES the public school wins out.
Why to some recent immigrants do better in some privae schools. There is a spectrum from almost total fraud to elite service. There are price points all along the way.
Some schools almost sell the marks. Other charge high fees but offer class sizes of 5-1 with highly qualified teachers.
If I were to use VIP Academy as an example, no class over ten kids all certified teachers $28 000 guarantee to U of T or school of your choice or money back or return free of charge until accepted. Principal has MEd plus SO certified.
This is one end of the spectrum, TCI is the other end. The “principal” does not even have a teaching certificate.
Rumour has it the “Dean” at VIP claims he doesn’t really have much to do in running the school and just sorta helps out. That may or may not be a good sign.
Too bad public schools didn’t come with the same type of guarantee that VIP has.
Paul the upwardly mobile yuppie parents of Toronto are VERY aware of exacty which elementary and secondary public and catholic schools are the so-called best schools. Although TDSB has an open boundary policy, kids within the catchment area have first dibs on a spot. The local kids usually fill these schools.
BTW, these schools are all located in ‘socially advantaged’ neighbourhoods. Parents will pull all manner of stunts including “grandmother’s address” using a friends address to qualify for a spot. They are required to bring ID + hydro bills and the like to get in.
My favourite, having taught in one school like this, was that one of the ‘maids children’ had a little difficulty getting in even though lived in.
There must have been something similar in York in your York years although housing is much more evenly distributed by class.
So it would seem that it might not be the students’ economic bracket that counts but the school’s.
No doubt a poor student in a middle class school is more likely to do well than a poor student in a poor school. This was the theory behind ” bussing” in the USA but, Americans can’t seem to think in class terms so they think in race terms.
One of the major problems of the charter-voucher movement is that they have difficulty moving beyond poor schools where everyone agrees there are problems they just disagree on solutions.
When charter operators attempt to move into middle class areas they are told “go away, our schools are good and you will only weaken them by pulling some kids out.”
It’d be useful to indicate who is being quoted so we can determine how legit they are. I suspect “middle class areas” don’t all quotet the same line, sorta like a teacher telling us what “teachers” believe….
There are different types of private high schools in Toronto.
While for some – fly by night just show up, pay the money and you’ll get a better mark – the term “diploma mills” would apply there are others where the standards are higher than at public schools.
By the way, in GTA the rumour is that summer courses at public high schools give higher grades easier than the regular courses.
High school students try to choose to take their credit courses with the teachers that give higher marks more easily.
Student go to high school at good independent schools to get a strong basis then they switch schools to public high schools for grade 11 and 12 to get higher marks.
The reality is that we don’t know exactly how to compare an let’s say 85% from one high school to an 85% from another high school. The admission into university system based almost only on the high school marks for the credit courses is deeply flawed and triggers these kind of games.
It would be reasonably easy and much more correct and objective to have admission to university be exam or test based.
Then nobody would care much about high school marks;students would care about how much they learn and how prepared they get. Instead of avoiding good teachers that have higher standards our kids would flock to their classes because it would be in their own best interest.
This run to the bottom, to the courses that are the easiest or taught by the teacher that gives higher marks would end.
The “diploma mills” will dissapear, and the high school students will concentrate on learning more instead of trying to game the system or pleading and begging with their teachers to give them higher marks – which by the way I understand happens quite frequently and I find profoundly disgusting and disturbing -.
Mr.Doug give me a break.
It is not the quality of your teachers – cerified or not – that gets the students at the VIP school into U of T!
While their English skills may leave a lot to be desired, good chinese-educated students know at the end of grade 8 probably have the math and science skills of what is mid grade 10 here!
On top of that these students have good work habits and are probably well motivated.
I’m sure that if you’re offering that kind of guarantee you are also selective in the students you admit to your school.
I also have to wonder how many “poor” students get to attend VIP?
Full Disclosure!
Doug and his wife own VIP Academy.
There’s irony in such a voracious advocate of the egalitarian public system owning a wildly expensive, highly selective and “elite” private school on the side, no?
On the other hand it may help explain his “cost is no object” view on education spending.
“Great teachers, community involvement, innovation, class sizes, competition, resourcefulness, self reliance, IT, (even creating schools out of rejected public buildings) … all contribute to excellent student achievement assessments.”
All true, but missing the biggest component, parents and their children. About meeting the learning needs of children, and not the needs of the adults, nor the belief systems of adults, that does a pretty good job at teaching children how to work least using minimum effort. And those are the children who have no outward learning struggles. For the rest, they are taught in various degrees how to play the game, often to the detrimental of the child and his future. When schools are awarding trophies for all, time to reconsidered the practices that awards mediocrity in order not to offend the self-esteem of students. The private schools, do a much better job in ensuring the child’s learning needs are met, and their future is secure.
As for the exclusive private schools, what I learned from the two located in my province, as well as from the American forums where parents gather, what do they do with their young students who are experiencing learning difficulties or attention problems. Do they tossed out the students? No, but they have a sit down with parents, in talking about the options in private tutoring for the students who fall under the mild to moderate category, while the student continues to take the regular curriculum. As I was told, private tutors are often used by the private schools, to addressed core difficulties in reading, writing and numeracy. The number of LD and ADD students are masked, at the private schools, because any services being received lie outside the services of the private school, and as a result, there is no official record in the student’s file that they have a mild to moderate disability. No surprise to see reading and writing levels well above the public education students, including the students with disabilities.
Dorretta hit the nail on the head, the public education system is indeed, afraid to asked the question of the hiring of private tutors for their children. It is rather foolish to compared the public and private students of high income by their SEC factors. “The study of PISA reading results compared public and private schools, across the range of countries, in relation to four key criteria: higher (positive) socio-cultural-economic status; disciplinary climate; material resources for instruction; and shortage in supply of teachers. ” What do the two groups have in common? Private tutoring, as well as parents who have the knowledge and ability, to seek the best possible education for their children, so their future is secure.
What is interesting when moving down the income level, and how the levels of achievement dropped according to income. Where Doug and the advocates of the poverty theory uses it to advance their own interests, as well as explaining the failures. In a typical middle-income school, where private tutoring and access to educational products are available, it is the start of the stats showing the famous 40-60 split of where 40 % students are just below grade 3 reading and numeracy levels. At this point, the private tutoring spike and the private tutors are enjoying an increase in business tending to the weaker skills of students, whose parents are willing to bite the bullet, and spend a small fortune to addressed the weak skills in the 3 Rs. What type of parent go to tutors, are of the professional type, and less likely from the well-paid blue collar workers. But many will addressed their children’s weak skills, by buying educational products, purchase subscription sites on the web, and other items, that all help to improve the academic weaknesses. The tutoring and education products are worth billions of dollars, and most of it is directed at the middle-income group. Meanwhile at the school level, as well as the board level, they take full credit for any achievement, while bragging at the lower numbers of LD students and other hard to teach children. But what has never been studied, is how students at any income level are treated according to the social status of their parents. In a typical public school, as I have observed and a great deal of parents have noted, is that the parent with the higher social status , the students will have better access to services that the school and the board offers. In a middle-income school, the children of professionals will received the full three hours of speech therapy, to the blue-collared students, who may be lucky to received 1 hour of speech therapy.
As for schools, where there is no access to private tutors, and all parents professionals and blue-collared are completely dependent on the public education system, the only four variables are the ability of parents, the knowledge of parents, the social status of parents, and the connections formed by parents to exchange information, to advance the best interest of their children. Not often discussed at the board level, but I can tell you they certainly do not like hearing about their examples and playing favourites, to the children whose parents have a higher social status than another parent. The school culture as well as the curriculum and instruction, plays havoc with student’s achievement in places where there is no or to little access to private tutoring, and also produces numbers that defies the poverty theory and the SEC factors that is rests on. The trouble is, the public education system would rather keep their pet theories including the poverty theory because it protects their best interests. If the public education system was a private school, they would be out of business a long time ago,. It was the advice of the deans of the two private schools, who told me that piece of advice when I was still fighting hard for access to education services, to addressed the 3 Rs. My next conversations was talking to private tutors across the country, what they were doing in addressing the 3 Rs of their LD students, Interesting and as well as eye-opening and than came SQE.. Where I learned that I was not alone in Canada,
I agree Nancy, I should have specified parents and their children. Assumed it was a given.
Often assume by others, parents are a given. Where parents are talk to, rather then to exchange information, to where the parents can used the new information to work for the best interests of their children. Being talked to, follows the pecking order of social status and the higher the social status, the higher the political capital the parent has. From my 37 years raising children, I should have had the foresight to enjoy the higher social status simply because my older children were top students right from the beginning. I was never talked to, but that quickly change with my youngest. I was talked to and for the early years, it became a series of one-way conversations. I came a long way, into understanding the school culture, the social-status pecking order, and the political capital of parents. Private schools do a much better job because their bread and butter is the student, and parents that have the money for tuition, also have immense political capital to work for the best interests of their child. Two-way conversations, without much undue pressure to change the values of the parents, and the focus stays on the learning needs of the child.
A present example is the P4E parent organization, acting as the official spokesperson for parents in Ontario, and sometimes for all parents in Canada, when speaking at the national level, They have immense political capital, and the parents who carry the torch, are the parents who are working towards the goals of the P4E, are parents who hold sway in their organization, the forums, and the directions. P4E expends a lot of energy into effecting the changing of parents working for the best interests of their children, to working for the best interests of the public education system. The energy is being directed at parents who do not have political capital or high ranking on the social-status scale. Below are two links, the first one of
the power point presentation, and the second is the video link.
Click to access P4E-Conference-2010-P4E-Presentation.pdf
http://www.tvo.org/TVO/WebObjects/TVO.woa?videoid?689441386001
Not one mention, and there never is on the practices of the public education that plays havoc with children’s learning. Criticism for the P4E, consists of criticism that do not follow the goals of their version of equity and the premises of the poverty theory. Parents who work in the best interests of their children to get the best possible education for their children, are seen as selfish parents, trying to get more than the other students in the class. Just talk to a SE parent and how many times there heard the word unfair whispered among parents. If parents actually work for the best interests of their children, and not the best interests of the many agendas of the public education, I bet achievement would rise accordingly, especially in the low-income schools, with the least political capital. But first the equity and poverty theory must be tossed out, and the SEC factors should be considered but not given as much weight as the school factors and its culture. Pipe dream, but a realistic one especially in the economic and political climate of the world, and the protests taking part all over the world.
Doug and his wife own VIP Academy.
There’s irony in such a voracious advocate of the egalitarian public system owning a wildly expensive, highly selective and “elite” private school on the side, no?
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BUSTED!
Stunning isn’t it?
One might want to consider a thread on the ethics of the educational profession.
Private versus public
In my life,I have experienced and seen the good and the bad-As we know,the elite private schools are very expensive but they deliver a fine education that will lead children to a productive adult life.
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I have seen many small private schools that are so corrupt that it was unimaginable that they were allowed to exist.They hired ANYBODY to teach and they faked test scores on report cards.I feel the schools for vulnerable children,the LD child for example where parents seek relief from the sham of public school where the label excuses lack of instruction can be every bit as bad in private school,if you don`t receive an intervention that is based on the empirical research of phonemic awareness instruction,neurological multisensory instruction in blending and segmenting for reading and spelling,intense work in phoneme grapheme correspondence training,the money is wasted.
Like Dr Reid Lyon stated in 1995,if we knew as much about aids or cancer as we know about reading and spelling and LD AND WE DID NOTHING,THERE WOULD BE CAUSE FOR MEDICAL MALPRACTICE..
Years ago I saw a parent bring a report card in my clinic with 2 kids that were in an LD school in Belleville Ont.that gave the children an A in Reading ,Language Arts,they were both unable to read or spell and the parents were spending $40,000.00 a year.I have been one of those parents in Ontario.I saw the light when I ran into a school that was truly honourable for Dyslexic kids.
Education can be a perfect place for con artists,there is no protection for parents.For those of you reading this blog,if you have a kid with any kind of language processing problem,there is research that shows that 95% of the kids can completely overcome these problems.
What is needed;
A-Teacher Training in explicit knowledge in how to teach Reading-40% learn without a problem,for 60% of the students,they will struggle without proper research based instruction.If you aren`t good at it by grade 3 and have not reached fluency,there is a much greater chance you will fail or drop out of high school.Spelling and writing are every bit as important as reading.
Research,2011,Casey Foundation.
And no one is doing the LD student a favour in the far future, when it is time to apply to post-secondary and access to special services at the school. As I was told, special services fully expect to see lower grades in language arts and English, and an A would set off the alarm bells, to request the school file, and investigate starting from the primary grades. Obtaining As in English is not the focus, but rather the progress made in correcting the weaknesses in language. It is a slower progress, in a typical public school but with the use of the correct reading, writing and numeracy interventions, the progress is a steady upward trend. over the years.
A pox for the schools that would rather give out phony grades, as well as schools who do not provide the correct remediation and intervention for their students. I
John L
Rumour has it the “Dean” at VIP claims he doesn’t really have much to do in running the school and just sorta helps out. That may or may not be a good sign.
Which has exactly what to do with the question. Paul has tried to warn people not to get personal.
You chose to raise the VIP Academy issue as an example of a school at polar extremes from a mediocre private school. I’m simply pointing out that you’re not entirely neutral on the matter. At the VIP website you are, or were, the “Dean”. Generally a Dean is a major voice in managing whatever he’s the Dean of, right?
In any event you’re up to your elbows offering a very elite, very expensive alternative to the public system you claim to be so committed to; at least to those who can pay the freight.
The issue being discussed is public versus private so your contradictory position is very germane.
John L
Full Disclosure!
Doug and his wife own VIP Academy.
There’s irony in such a voracious advocate of the egalitarian public system owning a wildly expensive, highly selective and “elite” private school on the side, no?
On the other hand it may help explain his “cost is no object” view on education spending.
Doug and his wife do not own VIP Academy, Doug’s wife owns VIP. John, how many times does Paul have to warn you not to get personal. I have made these points very clear in the past.
Doug and his wife own VIP Academy.
There’s irony in such a voracious advocate of the egalitarian public system owning a wildly expensive, highly selective and “elite” private school on the side, no?
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There is no “on the side” to it. She owns it, we are both retired from the public system which we support.
Regardless Doug, your points becomes invalid, the moment you are justifying the existence of your private school, and at the same justifying or defending the policies of the public education system. The school only exists because of the fault lines of the public education, that cannot provide the education that the rich international Chinese desires for their children. How come, it is ok for the rich Chinese to exercised their choice, but not ok for the students of the public education system? You believe in equality for all, but not when it comes to your highly selective private school, where your pocketbook is concern. The inequalities abound in the public education system, and you should know it, since your padded pension provides you with the luxury of opening up a private school, that offers an inclusive education for the rich Chinese students. By the wealthy Chinese, think United States provides the best education for their children, and I read it a few weeks ago in the New York Times. They send their children off first, and than the parents come later as immigrants, where they already have established themselves as property owners and a few side businesses. Apparently the rich Chinese, have no intentions in retiring and living in China. They think the future of their children is in United States and Canada.
The school is not only providing services for your students, but a valuable service for the rich Chinese parents, and future options for their retirement years.
I have made these points very clear in the past.
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That you have NOT done… until now.
That you have NOT done… until now.
I guess you are late starter. Nothing busted about it. Totally clear.
I was public school teacher and OSSTF official for 35 years. Wife also has many years teaching and work for MOE. Both retired. People in China ask her to start VIP they will send students because most schools for the community are diploma mills. She asked me to help out. VIP is started as the “anti-diploma mill” formula- all certified teachers, very small classes highly qualified principal with SO papers.
“Wrong” again. You avoided the issue of ownership of your school completely.
Credibility is now zilch.
Nancy, the answer is YES the rich have choices, the poor do not. That, sadly is how the world works. That is why we need to tax the rich and give more to the poor, Robin Hood style.
Define rich.
Robin Hood was a thief. You approve of stealing now?
Howzabout you allow a few “poor” kids to attend your academy, tuition-free? It’d be a great way for the wealthy students to get to know some poor kids.
Then there’s the value of allowing kids from various ethnic backgrounds to interact with each other…
This would be a great opportunity to walk the talk AND offer a legup to some of the poor kids you claim to be concerned about.
In that case Robin, how much of what you take from the rich parents who can afford VIP and give back to the poor families that can’t?
Nancy’s correct IMO.
Leave it to you, to see it the same way as some politicians, One set of rules for the rich to immigrate to Canada, and another set of very restrictive immigration rules for the ones who are not so rich. Where many of the rich immigrants have made their money on questionable practices, that would not be tolerated even in the backwaters of Canada. What are main reason why rich immigrants leave their country to places like Canada and United States. The opportunity to be free, and speak without the fear of government officials knocking on your door. Taxing the rich, will not solve the wage gap, nor the problems within society, caused by poor government planning and policy. There is no guarantee that taxing the rich will benefit those below them, under the current economic and social policies. It is the same thing, when money is thrown at the public education system, there is no guarantee that the policies are effective for most of the children. It is why I like the structure of the private school model, because their education policies are likely to reflect the best interests of their students, and not the adults in the school. As for the public education system, it is a real crap shoot, where 9 times out 10, the school is working on the behalf of the agendas at play within the public education system, and not the best interests of the students.
Andrew Gilmour
Robin Hood was a thief. You approve of stealing now?
Yes in non-democratic regimes. In democratic societies we can just tax the rich of their ill-gotten gains.
How has that worked in Cuba?
Chicago has thrown every “accountability” and “data driven” and “union bashing” and “choice” reform they could possibly think of at the Chicago school system and guess what? Nothing worked.
It failed because the poor are still poor.
Hmmm…
So it follows that the absolute top priority is to focus on helping the poor rather than, say, higher teacher salaries, free daycare, free tuition, blah, blah, right?
Let’s direct resources to actually helping the poor if they’re the one’s most in need, not shotgunning it all over the place.
A report from the public system’s favorite institute.
http://www.ourkids.net/private-schools-versus-public-schools.php
Why do private school students achieve better result?
Found another site, called Conference of Independent Schools of Ontario.
http://www.cisontario.ca/page.cfm?p=1
By random, I selected a school, that also takes in students who have learning differences. Quite impressive, where the small class of 30 grade 12 graduates, raked in over $750,000 in scholarships.
http://www.elmwood.ca/
The last newsletter:
Click to access EmblemSpring2011small.pdf
“Academic excellence was also seen throughout the School. Our Grade 3
and 5 students performed, on average, 16 to18 months above grade level
on the CAT-3 national standardized test for the fourth consecutive year. There
were also a number of students who voluntarily participated in national math
competitions, and Eva Sabine was listed on the National Honour Roll for
the second year in a row. Tannya Cai, Grade 10, won bronze at the Regional
Science Fair and the top award in the Virtual Science Fair. She also scored
in the top 25% in the Galois and Cayley Math Contests. Grade 11 student
Emma Graham won silver at the Regional Science Fair and was a finalist at
the Sanofi-Aventis BioTalent Challenge for the second year in a row. She also
won a Mandarin language competition in Montreal and will travel to China to
compete in the fall”
I bet there is no waiting around to see if a learning struggle will go away, as in our public schools.
There was an ETFO forum that I joined over the summer, called Kids Matter. It is now closed, but the general discussions, or quite a few centered around resources and the students lacking a solid foundation in the 3 Rs.
Here is one small snippet, that I was surprised to see that teachers have observed, yet HQ union, would never omit openly, or any other union for that matter. But in a private school, no such problems, and the issues usually are surrounding if the school is a good fit for their children. In a public school setting, there is no concern over that one. All children must assimilate, or be left behind???? Perhaps if the top layers went away, the parents and teachers of the community, would than have the ability to deliver a quality education. Perhaps even having most children reading at 1 to 2 grade levels. If anything I have learned, you gotta shoot for the stars, and than plan accordingly to make it happen, by goal setting.
“Principals are rewarded for NOT spending money; parents are left to advocate and negotiate for necessities with school superintendents/Boards”
John L
You need to get one thing perfectly clear. Yon CANNOT save money in education. Every dollar not spent in education will eventually be spent anyway X10. It will be spent on welfare, EI, prisons, courts, cops, productivity losses, lack of innovation, lower GDP, higher debt and deficit, and eventually higher taxes. Education spending is the one chance we have to avoid all of this.
Yes you can spend inefficiently but it is almost impossible to spend to much.
Some nations appear to spend less per child but it is because they have less. China for example, spends the world’s highest % of GDP on education. If you want to fall seriously behind PR China, the asian tigers and other emeging nations I suggest slashing the education budget.
.Wow, Doug, myopic as well as looking after your best interests.
The definition of GDP: “The total market value of all final goods and services produced in a country in a given year, equal to total consumer, investment and government spending, plus the value of exports, minus the value of imports. Read more: http://www.investorwords.com/2240/Gross_Domestic_Product.html#ixzz1a6cLurvE
What is the population of China? 1,339,724,852
Of course Doug, China and India would have have larger GDP growth, based alone on population, and exports. plus government spending.
Impossible to spend too much??? Perhaps when education needs on based on SEC factors, and equity policies that more or less works at the lowest bench marks, always creates the need of more money, to prevent “welfare, EI, prisons, courts, cops, productivity losses, lack of innovation, lower GDP, higher debt and deficit, and eventually higher taxes.”
What a sorry excuse Doug, and the other advocates of increase expenditures, in the public education system, when none of the policies work for the best interests and the learning needs of students. Private schooling, and the private schools that survive and thrive, even in rough economic times, are schools that adapt to their needs of their students, and not having the students adapt to the needs of the adults. To use China or any other country for that matter without using the numbers from the ground, and not the top numbers such as GDP is the ploy that is used to defend the teaching practices and policies of a centralized system or model. Sure Canada, from the top appears to decentralized, but each provincial model has a strong centralized model, where the practices, policies, and power divisions provides the adults to run their pet theories based on the SEC factors, and water-downed practices concerning the individual needs of the students. All it does, it increases expenditures, to put out the many small fires of inequity of the individual student as well as increasing expenditures to maintain the equity policies that are for the most part control the social-status of the students.
In China, and in other countries, the same things happen where the lower the social-status, the less apt an individual or a group of individuals will be on the same levels on reading, writing and numeracy as those with a higher social-status. China is a very poor example Doug, but than again, insiders within education, think that most or us outside looking in, are not capable of understanding, and very much like politicians who come up with the excuse from time to time, “It is far too complicated for the average person to understand.”
Private schools, are very aware of social-status, and as such do not provide education based on income, and other SEC factors, but rather providing a quality education, with a sound foundation of the 3 Rs. One outcome, that I have discovered, is that the private schools, the graduates take a larger share of scholarships, compared to public education. Within the public education, the high income groups have the greater share of scholarships to the lower income groups. What do the students share within their schools of the public education system, a firmer grounding of the 3 Rs, which in turn increases social-status of the individual students to captured the attention of the scholarship people, to seats in post-secondary, and in the end, jobs.
In a place like China, no matter what income, a child like mine would have a much lower social-status, because of her disability. Most immigrants who have the money leave the country, and the rest, have no choice but to play the game. In the typical public education system, a student who has a language problem such as LD, are faced with a lower social-status, because accommodations, and lowering outcomes by themselves, will not improved the learning weaknesses of the student. They are never on equal-footing with their peers, unless their reading, writing and numeracy levels are brought up to the same levels, in order to complete with other students regardless of income, and other SEC factors.
“The critical factor is that private independent schools not only expect but require more of their students.” as Paul has stated. They expect more, because the students have a more or less a solid foundation in the 3 Rs, compared to the public schools, where expecting more runs on the income levels and SEC factors between income groups, and within the income groups. Solutions, plenty of them, providing the solutions do not considered the SEC factors as critical and/or to be used as excuses for the failures of an education system. One of the favourite ploys by the educrats, was to questioned my parent ability via through my high standards, that I expected for my younger child. No different from my other children, except in the goal setting. Of course it does not help, when the educrats saw my child, as not having the stuff for academic learning, and more so when I focus on the fundamentals of the 3 Rs. I was looking out for her long-term future, rather than the myopic short-term goals of standard outcomes and grade levels. As my youngest improved in the 3 Rs, her social-status increase as well, and more importantly accomplishing the short-term goals of outcomes and grades. In order to get there, the setting of goals, just like the private schools (the very good ones), setting goals for the individual students to improve their weaknesses. And where the public education does a terrible job as income drops.
We’ve covered this repeatedly and its no more true now than the other times you’ve tossed it out. There’s no way of determining what returns there’ll be unless we know exactly where the money is being spent. Simply saying “spend more on education!” is vacuous and self-serving.
We do need to give VIP Academy a rest and return to the question raised in this discussion thread.
Steven Rhude’s last post directed us to the recent Our Kids analysis of Public Schools vs Private Schools. It is a reasonably balanced and fair assessment, but clearly tilts in the direction of private, independent schools.
The Our Kids comparative analysis references the superior test results and the school rankings, particularly in BC.The Harvard study I am not familiar with but would be worth looking at more closely.
On the matter of PISA results, all sides now acknowledge their value in assessing not only student performance levels, but the relative educational quality of school systems. The Finland results brought educational progressives into the discussion because they now had something to crow about.
What’s my point? On the basis of 2009 PISA results, private school students do perform significantly better.
Much of the variation may be the result of being able to choose your students..but the current financial crisis since 2008 has decimated the applicant pools and private schools are definitely not as selective as they were five years ago.Most private school heads and virtually everyone connected with boarding schools now concede that admissions standards are so relaxed that almost everyone gets in. In short,the student populations cover all ability levels. The bottom line:The critical factor is that private independent schools not only expect but require more of their students.
Most private school heads and virtually everyone connected with boarding schools now concede that admissions standards are so relaxed that almost everyone gets in
This is definitely untrue for elite schools. I have a close family member who is an administrator in an elite boarding school. Their applicant pool has shrunk, but not significantly. They still have 10-15 applicants for every place. I went to an unofficial reunion of my own class at a non-Ontario prep school. Even with the recession, and annual tuition exceeding that of Harvard (for a day school yet), they have not 10 but 25 applicants for every place. Standards are higher than ever, and so is the competition to get in.
Is the academic work offered significantly advanced over that of even excellent public schools? Yes, precisely because the school(s) can be selective. My alma mater only accepts candidates who place several SD above the mean in measured academic ability. The “dumb clucks” in my class are now head of pediatrics at teaching hospitals, director of programs at selective universities, research scientists and similar positions. And a few of us became teachers;-)
Students who could not keep up with the pace and volume of work required were gently but firmly eased out. This is still the situation. When I got to a competitive university, I was shocked to find that the level of work in first year was what I had experienced in Grade 8. Frankly, there is no way a public institution, committed to educating all (or nearly all) comers can offer the same pacing and intensity of instruction.
The research on public-vs-private school effectiveness is not at all clear cut, and certainly does not favour private schools as being generally superior to public schools. When other factors are controlled for, they come out about equally effective. There are rotten, ghastly private schools (academically speaking) that the parents who patronize them are quite pleased with because — imagine this — those parents don’t much care about academics. Really! There are plenty of people who consider academic achievement to be well down the list (or missing from the list) of important goals for their children.
Stanovich pointed out that the scientific method means that a particular study is merely one data point; it is the balance of cumulative evidence that shifts the scale towards proof of one position or another. The evidence in the private-vs-public school debate does not tilt either way, in large part because apples and shoelaces are being compared, and in other cases because what patrons of private schools value and support differs markedly from public school foci and also from those of other private schools.
What we need is more variability within the public system to meet the needs of the kids in between, who don’t fit the mainstream for whatever reason. This is an achievable goal, but requires parents who value such options to be active in initiating and supporting them. The parents who want more exploratory, free school type options have been quite successful in ensuring these choices are available; now those who wish a stronger or more focused academic emphasis need to do the same.
In fact Paul, we are hearing that the private schools, the elite ones are serving an even richer clientel since the marginal ones now cannot afford it.
My estimate is that 80% of private school success is due to high SES and selective enrolement. The remaining 20% is due to very small classes, individual attention, enriched curriculum and in many cases, highly qualified teachers.
All things that public schools should have.
“What we wish for ourselves, we wish for all people.”
J.S. Woodsworth.
I’m a little shocked to hear that teachers in the public schools aren’t already “highly qualified”. I suspect most folks have that expectation as a default. No doubt we’d have to determine being a “highly qualified teacher” even means.
You make a compelling case TDSB when it comes to the small number of “elite” independent day schools.
I do question how representative they are of the private school community. Of the 92 CAIS member schools only a half dozen remain highly selective in their admissions. And over the past five years boarding school enrolment is down 15 per cent across Canada.
Your revelation that you were significantly ahead of your peers entering university is a story I have heard many times. My own daughter and I have compared HGS Grade 10 history essays with her 1st and 2nd year Queen’s History students. It was hard to tell them apart.
The bottom line: Shocking differences appear when you compare standards. Yes, it’s driven by SES factors, but there is much more at work because scholarship students thrive as well and private schools rack up much higher numbers of IB graduates. Across NA, private schools average some 30 IB diplomas, while public schools average 18 to 20 per school.
It’s too easy to explain it all away by citing family circumstances.
It’s too easy to explain it all away by citing family circumstances.
___________________________________________________
Exactly, but what a convenient catchall excuse.
“My own daughter and I have compared HGS Grade 10 history essays with her 1st and 2nd year Queen’s History students. It was hard to tell them apart.”
As my youngest and I were driving to town, she was chattering away, giving me the latest in what is happening in English. The teacher(s) are no longer following the curriculum, except in novels, and the over all arching goal is to improved their writing skills for the public exams, and more importantly for post-secondary. What has been promise to the students, that by the end of grade 12, your writing skills will be in the Bs or higher when writing essays at the post-secondary. All work is done in the class, and put in the folders for the teacher to review. The teacher reviews it, looking for the strengths and weaknesses of the students. As usual, my child displays different strengths, that are the weaknesses of the majority of students. And her weaknesses, are only shared by a few other students in the room. The students who always had As from the beginning, are now finding out they need vast improvement, and it is quite an eye opener. What I can gather from my youngest, the class has change to one where every students enjoys going to English class, and their focus is to improve their own writing. My youngest is beginning to like English, because she is learning new skills that can be transferred to other subjects. I am pretty sure, I no longer have to worry about her sending me her essay, on some topic I do not understand, nor do the kind of editing that I might expect to find from a grade 10 student.
As for the English teacher, former student of a private school and a teacher of a private school. I don’t know why she is down here in my outport, but my rural community does get quality teachers, who have strong knowledge in their subjects. Perhaps, because education was taken seriously here and has been provided since 1800, and very few of the well-to-do sent their kids to boarding schools. Pretty brave to go against the ones’ that lies above them, but I am pretty sure they have the evidence and stats to go to war with them, if they object. After all the current grade 11 class, only 40 % at the beginning of grade 8, had fair writing skills, and 60 % had low writing skills. Not a one, had excellent to good writing skills. .
A 2006 paper, concluding, “We also conclude that the National Center for Education Statistics needs to hold commissioned studies to a higher standard. It is well known in the scholarly community that one cannot infer school sector effects from observations made at a single point in time. When reviewing a commissioned study, NCES should have questioned the model construction undertaken by ETS. A government agency with a long and distinguished
history in the collection and analysis of important educational data has fallen short. Next time, it needs to do better. It can begin by never again using NAEP data to estimate school sector effects.”
http://mail.google.com/mail/?fs=1&source=atom#inbox/132d0ed2ff3bbf77
On the Public-Private School Achievement Debate
My public school kids felt a bit P/Oed that they made the Principal’s List for last year, but some of the special needs type kids got Honors. I tried to explain to them that , yes,there is a difference between them and the other students but we should be happy for them.They did well for the subjects they took and they must have worked hard and did their best and they deserve recognition for that. But, in their minds, it just wasn’t a real deal. My daughter didn’t attend the event they had for recognizing the students. She said, “they just lower the bar.” Out of the mouths of babes. I chose to go along with the feel good part of the event and chose to see kids in school, having fun and doing well. Sometimes, the rose-colored glasses do wonders.
Are you kidding me? Lowering the bar?? If your kids can’t tell the difference between their achievements and the achievements of the “special needs kids”, then shame on them! They will (hopefully) be attending post secondary school, while their “special needs” peers will have a different journey. Tell your kids how lucky they are to have been born with the intellectual capacity to further their education. The awards at the end of high school mean nothing. Your kids could well be working at a dead end job along side one of the students they seem to look down upon! It’s what you do with the rest of your life that is important, including celebrating the success of all!
http://harpers.org/archive/2011/10/hbc-90008263
Somebody finally understands giving money to private universities does not help. The formula has been upside down for decades.
First you fix inequality, then education success flows (Finland).
It does not work the other way around.
What do you think the Occupy Wall Street protests are all about Doug? Newly minted teachers, who cannot find jobs, $50,000 + in debt, working just above minimum wage to starve the wolves at the door, and can’t afford the food. All the social science graduates can’t find work, the trades people ditto, the laid off people, the people who are about to lose their homes, the people who are about to be evicted from their rental apartment, and the list gets bigger every day. Than there is the ones that do have jobs, and not at all secure even for a six months period. As for new jobs, imagine 50,000 applicants for 500 positions to work for $12 to $16 a hour.
The article is another one of many, coming from the other side, stating not in black and white, there is no point in educating groups of people until inequality is fixed within groups. The inequality does not exist within the groups, but the economic policies, regulations, and government policy imposes inequality unto groups within society. Or are you on the side of a U.S. politician, who proudly stated, that if they are out of work, it is all their fault in the first place.
Education success will not flow, until the inequities within the economic and political policies are fixed. As in the Finland protests, no point in getting an education, when there is no jobs in your field. But they are just as peeved as their counterparts across the world saying enough is enough.
Phoenix and other online schools like it, are very popular, because they are far cheaper that the over-price universities and colleges, At least going online, students can still work full time. The other side is just peeved that they are loosing students to the online schools. Canada is in the same vote, where newly minted graduates, are willing to work for free even for a year, just to gain experience in their field, and they still live at home, where the parents are picking up the costs. Go talk to the protesters when Occupy Bay Street appears in Toronto, and they tell you what inequality is and the solution. P.S. Don’t tell them you are retired teacher, owner of a private school for the rich Chinese, and have a padded pension for life, You are the enemy and work for the other side along side the bankers and Corporate Canada, to keep the status-quo. Online schools are fast becoming the only choice for a vast sector of society, that can no longer afford the tuition, and the frills such as food and shelter, The public education systems, can take a seat on the same stage as the bankers, for having education policies that promotes and screams inequality, discrimination and reinforces the class structures of society.
Funny thing Doug, state colleges and universities the average costs are $35,000. including room and board. Harvard and other ivy-league schools, are at the $50,000 mark including room and board. Health insurance and the extras are more. In Canada, tuition, room and board, can run as low as $15,000 not including such frills, as pocket money, to $35,000. In Canada, they love to nickle and dime students, as well as over charging when it comes to books. So much for public funding, and where the private ivy-leagues and Phoenix seems to stretch the dollar a little further than the colleges and universities that has public funding.
Right now we are educating people so that most of the clerks at Home Depot will have a BA. I agree with making post sec. education less expensive to the point of free tuition and beyond, living allowances for poorer kids. The fact is well educated people without jobs become very angry and very left wing. Witness Tunisia and as you say, occupy wall street. I see the OWS crowd as the Democrats Tea Party, just as on the right, a huge block sees the main line Republicans ass too tame the OWS people see the Dems the same way.
Perhaps the economy will turn around, it usually does, and many more will get middle class jobs but between technology and outsourcing the USA is destroying its good jobs because they are expensive.
For 100 years we cut the work week every couple of decades from he 60 hour week with only Sunday off and thanks to unions we wrestled it down to 40 hours and we seem to have stopped dead for decades. Time for the 35 then 30 hour week to spread the work around. No pay cuts.
Why do you think jobs are being outsourced?
Andrew Gilmour
Why do you think jobs are being outsourced?
Because there is no limit to greed.
Ha.
The typical non-answer.
Credibility is now at minus 10.
Doug, oh how you weave your web, to maintain the status-quo, and of course your personal best interests. Repeating the messages of your masters over and over, in the hope that the messages will become the truth over the reality of the day. There is a reason why a private education has more worth and value than a public education has, for the general public. And here the public education systems has done an excellent job in replicating education according to income. The essay published in 1993, The Failure of American Public Education, still stands today, and no doubt will stand 50 years from now, on what the problems are and the self-serving agendas and interests that hinders quality education to exist, and devalues a public educations with purpose of to serve the needs of the adults. In the last few lines of the essay, “By any reasonable measure, America’s monopolistic, bureaucratic, over-regulated system of public schools is woefully unprepared to meet the challenges of the twenty-first century. Political, business, and education leaders continue to talk about “reforming” the current public education system. They should, instead, be discussing how to replace it.”
And Doug, is weaving his own web of trickery, for mediocrity,and discounting the needs of the individuals, by devaluing them from human beings, to mere lines on a political spectrum. And dismissing the latest warnings from the watchdog in education, ” Canadian education awaits a hard lesson, watchdog warns.” http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/canadian-education-awaits-a-hard-lesson-watchdog-warns/article2197017/
The comments in the G/M article is voicing the same points in the essay, The Failure of American Public Education. Where retired educators are hired at Home Depot, and than proceed to insult the customers, questioning their own math procedures, and than explain that customers no longer know how to figure out square footage, or read the labels of products or determined their own needs and requirements, Yet, the customers do not see it as being insulting, and those that do, get a proper dressing down from the sales clerks. At least with private education, the users are allow to question their expertise, but not within the public education system. It is why the users of the private system have more value than the users of the public education system, and as a result, higher achievement for the private schools.
I have no master!!!! (don’t tell my wife I said that).
Yes the Americans have a very bad education system for a few reasons.
1) Although they probably spend enough, there is a serious maldistribution of the financial resources so that those with the most need get the least and vice versa.
2) Americans tolerate much wider income polarization than any other developed nation. We know that poor people do badly so that when you have a 20% child poverty rate that could easily be 5% (Finland 4%) then you will do badly with education guaranteed.
3) Americans refuse to look at what successful nations do with their public school systems. They insist on American exceptionalism so they flounder around with failing theoretical experiments in testing and privatization rather than doing what successful nations do.
Malkin Dare (SQE) and Tom Flannigan (Globe and Mail) are both trying to sell the idea that Alberta has the best education results in Canada due to funding private schools and charters. What a laugh.
Educational success in Alberta is spelled O-I-L. Oil = jobs. Jobs = good incomes, good incomes = low poverty rate, low poverty rate = excellent school results.
Alberta has the lowest poverty rate in Canada at 13.5% (still to high). This is the reason it has good education results.
As things here seem to have strayed again, Doug’s medicine is best take with a reminder of this, which in my mind makes it easier to chalk up Doug’s spin of issues. He skoffs at Ms. Dare and Mr. Flannigan yet is himself a supporter and benefactor of what he abhors.
“Full Disclosure!
Doug and his wife own VIP Academy.”
Not to mention a blog (or something) no one can see.
Education achievement is much higher in Alberta, because of providing choice, and as a result, the Alberta’s public education system, is much more superior to any other public education system in Canada. In the public education system, the garden variety reading disorders, are taken care of, to bring the students up to par, where they become fair to good readers, compared to any other province. By providing choice throughout the system, parents are able to seek the best education for their children, unlike other provinces, where there call it a day, when students achieved a 50 %, and than hold press conferences boasting achievement in the sea of mediocrity. Personally, every family that moved to Alberta, has nothing but praise for the Alberta’s education system, that strives to provide a quality education, with a more or less firmer foundation in the 3 Rs.compared to other provinces.
And Doug, there is no definition for poverty rate, and therefore all the figures that are being quoted, the poverty and low-income are being defined differently from one government agency to the next, and the organizations that have an interest in poverty and low-income. However using the American definition, the poverty and low-income percentages, are just below the good old United States. More than likely, the poverty rate stands in and around 30 % and low-income at around the 44 % depending on the region. What Alberta has is good poverty strategies centered around affording housing, compared to Ontario that has no effective poverty strategies. Just because a province has a large number of good paying jobs, does not mean large numbers of people climbing from low-income to higher incomes. Now consider the price of shelter, food and the other basic living expenses, that are eroding people’s ability to provide the nice to have extras, the actual low-income cut-off increases, for all of the provinces, putting people in the same position as they were before. Of course, you don’t have to worry about that do you Doug? You think it is ducky dory to increase taxes, and repeat the whole dirty cycle all over again, starting off with the maintaining of the status-quo within the education system, the fat salaries and pensions, by cutting services to students, by forcing all to have an education within the public domain, and than rations the education services and the individual needs of the students. Of course the parents who have the means, always has choices, unlike Alberta that provides a number of choices for all income groups.
However Doug, you do omit other data, if the public education system is so great in Ontario, than why does Ontario have the highest tuition rates in Canada? Ditto for college tuitions. Where Ontario and Quebec leads the pack in steady increases, compared to Alberta’s increase of 0.1 and Newfoundland’s increase of 0. On the other side of the stats, the poverty strategies of both Alberta and NL, have help to decrease the number of families living below the low-income cut-off, but due to the economic times, the number of low-income is on the rise in all provinces. But in Quebec and Ontario, it is on the fast track to become number one again. Increasing taxes and funding of public services that are ineffective, only repeats the cycle all over again.
A province rich in resources, high percentages of GDP, does not guarantee the education system will have higher achievement results. Alberta, has higher achievement, because it offers choice within the public and private sector, compared to NL who offers no choice. Like Ontario, both provinces spends more or less the same amount in education, per student, and yet it is only Alberta that has the highest achievement. Like Ontario, NL has the same model of a public education system, that severely limits choice and how that choice is access, as well as similar funding models. It is only Alberta that has a different model, where choice has created a model of competition in Alberta’s educational sector. That models enables parents and their children to access public education, providing many choices, no matter what income level, what postal code, with few limits placed on the choice. In other words, Alberta’s education model, is very effective at limiting how income impacts the education of children, and the bonus is providing a higher quality education at reduced costs. Providing an education in Canada, has everything to do with the models and delivery of education, and Ontario model, like the BC model, is heavily dependent on shaping policy around the income and other SEC factors. By doing so, achievement is a hard battle, just to maintain, let alone rise above Alberta, when considering the other economic indicators that are at play.
VIP is not a secret. I tout the public education system not the private. Where is the conflict.
Andrew you can see the blog any day
http://www.thelittleeducationreport.com
Nancy, I OPPOSE the high tuition rats in Ontario, you are a little confused.
Alberta had much higher results LONG BEFORE the charter reforms but only after the discovery of oil.
How does one access the discussion among the tens of thousands of subscibers at The Little Report?
At first glance it appears there’s no way to discuss or debate the issues raised; hardly a means of upping the quality of things.
One wonders how the “I talk and you listen” thing would play out in most classrooms!
Still have the rose-coloured glasses welded unto your head, just in case a bit of reality seeps into your eyes.
On the G/M article – a comment
“School Based Management AND Choice Are Factors In School Scores
There are other reasons besides test scores as to why parents and students choose one school over another. Responsiveness on the part of the provider is another choice factor. Only one person so far has dealt with school based management as being a factor in producing both good scores and satisfied customers.
The “Edmonton Model” is frequently mentioned in text books on economics and school administration policies.
It was in the 70s that Michael Strembitsky, Edmonton superintendent of public schools, started implementing site-based management where principals were responsible for developing budgets to respond to the individual needs of their schools. I heard him speak to a trustee group in Vancouver in mid 70s to this effect:
“Why should a grocery store manager stock avocadoes in his store if none of the customers wanted them? He is going to stock the vegetables and fruit according to the needs and wants of his customers. Why shouldn’t this apply to how principals run their schools?”
That was the start of the wide variety of schools now seen in Alberta on top of the already fully paid choices between Catholic and public schools. Strembitsky is now an international consultant in the school turnaround movement with his insights on “Results-Driven Decision Making”.
A troubling question now arises. How long will Alberta continue to be a leader in school performance and customer satisfaction if school based management is crushed? SBM is usually opposed by teacher unions.
The new premier, Alison Redford, deeply beholden to the Alberta Teachers Association members for her successful election, has already succumbed to two cherished ATA “needs” — $100 million dollar funding to education and reopening of the issue of parental veto of sensitive sex material for their children.
In the predictable “shakedown” style of payback politics how long will school based management be allowed to exist in Alberta public schools? And how long till the predictable slide in international achievement scores?
Mr. Flanagan needs to update his equation of choice=competition=excellence to add school based management instead of soviet-style central control which is the bane in most of the rest of Canadian public schools.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/opinion/albertas-education-system-offers-lesson-in-competition/article2195038/comments/
Soviet-style central control which is the bane in the rest of the Canadian public school, and this is what Doug is rooting for when he cheering the public education system, but his private school as with most private schools, have school-based management. Is Doug backing second-rate education for the public school kids? I would say a resounding yes, because only rich Chinese students can attend his pricey academy, and sends the rest that do not meet the school’s requirements, to the second-rate public education system. He secretly desires Soviet-style education model, except for the private students, and he either has both feet planted in another alternative reality, or he really can’t see anything wrong with his stances. Doug, how come you have not attested to the achievement of your Chinese students to the international students in the public high schools. Or is it nothing to brag about?
I could have sworn Paul posted a polite request for contributors to drop the topic of VIP Academy/ Doug ( moreover, the identical remarks have been made on multiple occasions by the same people).
Some readers seem unaware that a newsletter is not the same thing as a blog. Most blogs are interactive, while newsletters and other informational sites frequently are not. Most interactive of all are bulletin boards and listservs. Since others are repeating themselves yet again, I will do the same. I suggested before (and repeat it here) that Paul start a thread entitled “Let’s All Argue With Doug!!” where those who find such interchange stimulating can have at it 24/7 ad nauseam.
That would make it possible for those of us seriously interested in improvements to curriculum, instruction and public education to carry on discussions on those themes. Chacun a son gout.
Or perhaps the problem is that there are simply too few Canadians with significant interest in these matters, whereas there are hundreds of active, high quality U.S. blogs, bulletin boards and listservs on such topics. All three or four or five Canadians interested in better teaching and learning, rise up! What’s that saying, a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step….
Credibility is relevant.
Yes, credibility is very relevant TDSB for those of “seriously” interested in improvements to education.
You can’t dismiss the contradiction in Doug’s arguments and the spin within that more often than not sends discussion off track.
I find it refreshing that this forum allows for questions to be asked and credibility challenged.
Some readers seem unaware that a newsletter is not the same thing as a blog.
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One would know if one could access it.
I tried again – no dice.
Also note that I stated “a blog (or something)”.
What were you saying about personal comments?
Even though you named no one it is quite clear that you were singling out one individual.
Doug chooses to be a very prolific contributor here, and elsewhere, so his bona fides are relevent. Further, as a retired teacher, his unwillingness to let thousands of people interact or discuss his assertions, via his part of the blogosphere, comes across as passing strange.
As to the “identical remarks” made by “the same people” I suspect that’s mostly a function of a failure to actually explain the contradictions.
As to “Let’s All Argue With Doug” that’d simply be enabling him, right?
Anywayyy… I suspect most of the important points ar now covered so let’s move on 😉
Here is an active perspective, albeit ostensibly a legacy report, on concerns for a Canadian Education Strategy. It certainly shines a light on the fact that all schools do not provide quality education even though 60% of parents are happy with the system. What about the other 40% of parents?
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/canadian-education-awaits-a-hard-lesson-watchdog-warns/article2197017/
Well, I just noticed Nancy has already posted this article.
A little old but still releavant.
Click to access Fact+Sheet-Private+Education+Growing+Rapidly.pdf
It seems the question is still lingering. Does goverment legislation inhibit the private sector from contributing to and meeting educatonal demands?
more restrictions from the publc mill.
http://www.southshorenow.ca/archives/2011/101211/news/index033.php
So governments and school boards are inherently dishonest and play a rigged game.
Unfortunately, that isn’t news.
No, it isn’t. But it does shine light on the so called level playing field and why some parents seek alternatives outside the public system.
Being saddled with Jim Gunnites isn’t helping you folks out one iota.
Here is an interesting article about how the pressure of going to another school
seems to be the factor in making the separate school boards more effective than the public boards.
In my work,I have also found the soul of the superintendent to be a huge factor,does he or she want their kids to achieve and have a better life or are they stoic to outcomes?Yes,that is huge also,do they put pressure on themselves to improve their school boards?
We know private schools want to keep their clients so their pressure to do so is obvious.Only undue financial pressure will have a client leave a private school where their kids are thriving.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/economy-lab/stephen-gordon/why-separate-schools-are-outperforming-public-boards/article2198221/
Paul – this may be deserving of it’s own thread? It’s off-topic here but so are other posts.
http://www.nationalpost.com/todays-paper/Scholarly%2Bself%2Babsorption/5535690/story.html
John L
How does one access the discussion among the tens of thousands of subscibers at The Little Report?
At first glance it appears there’s no way to discuss or debate the issues raised; hardly a means of upping the quality of things.
One wonders how the “I talk and you listen” thing would play out in most classrooms!
John you have made the same point 1000 X , it is a newsletter, essentially a one way communication. It allows letters to the editor which have been published. It is not a discussions board. Do you understand that? It is a business. Newspapers allow letters. They print some. Nothing new.
Ah. It’s a business.
So you’re what, a capitalist-socialist? A socialist-capitalist?
Or (most likely) an everybody-gives-so-I-can-take socialist?
Americans have a rotten system based on states rights so Louisiana and Mississippi can have very low standards, test with easy tests and say they are great while the NAEP and their college enrolement rates say they are terrible.
The world leaders have national plans and a national vision. We are more ‘provincial’ in all meanings of the word.
Thank You Paul for the CCL Legacy report.
We are all aware that Britain`s gov. has gotten very involved with education because of it`s dreadful deterioration as well as the U.S.-What is Harper waiting for?
I was stricken with the repliy comments on the report-“P D S
9:19 AM on 10/12/2011
As a professional writer, I agree that the educational system is failing.
Grammar is no longer taught, so word processors do the thinking for the would-be writer. Fewer and fewer writers are able to craft the language, which is nice for those of us building a career out of it, but not for future generations. Add to this the removal of failure from the education system and we see a system in trouble. Someone commented that teachers are held to a performance measured standard. This is correct to get the accreditation, but once the teacher has the job, true performance measurement stops. The union prevents lackluster teachers from being removed. Unless you can benchmark good teachers against those in need of assistance, and follow through with support to bring them up to speed, the system will steadily decline. In the private sector if you don’t measure up, you find yourself jobless. Our tax dollars fuel a system that is working, but not working well.
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lcq
7:39 AM on 10/12/2011
Lord I agree with John_G a second time. The schools are too busy pushing an agenda and not sticking to the basics.
McGuilty is responsible for this mess with his idiotic
No Child Left Behind policy, read kids are not allowed to fail. The new mantra in Ontario is “if at first you don’t succeed lower your standards”
Doug,who is asking you to comment on every one of the commentators recommendations for improvement.We know you love the status quo-message received.Over and out.
There needs to be pressure for improvement-Fraser Mustard begged us to look at the early years,Dalton gave us all day K with a weak curriculum that`s based on play and will further bankrupt Ontario.
Or Kids posted my Commentary on Private Schools with a little different twist. Blog Editor Christl Dabu gave it a great title: “Soft Private School Standards: Not According to PISA Tests”
http://www.ourkids.net/blog/soft-private-school-standards-not-according-to-pisa-tests-16499/
It would be nice to see a few of you contribute to that online discussion.
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